Jump to content


Become a part of the community today! Registration is quick and easy and will enable you to post, send personal messages, and join in on the chat! It's as simple as clicking on the links above.

Will SyncApp be open source?

syncapp open source hardware

  • Page 1 of 5
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • Please log in to reply
98 replies to this topic

#1 zeflo

zeflo

    New User

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 1 posts

Posted 26 February 2013 - 01:01 PM

Hey, i would like to know if you are planing to release SyncApp as open source? Or at least the protocol? The reason i ask is, that i am thinking about designing an open source NAS (iMX233 or A10 based).As i don't have an account right now, i don't know how much resources the SyncApp uses.

Geetings, Florian
  • jasonwryan, rippelhans and splat like this

#2 jasonwryan

jasonwryan

    New User

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 3 posts

Posted 11 March 2013 - 12:28 AM

I would also like to see this question answered; both to clarify what the current license is (I couldn't seem to locate it in any of the places I looked) and also to understand what the future plans for the source are.
  • rippelhans and btusername like this

#3 hobbes80

hobbes80

    New User

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 3 posts
  • LocationHerndon, VA

Posted 05 April 2013 - 07:51 PM

I'd also love to see this question answered from a 3rd party App perspective. Big companies that make apps like Chrome have the advantage of having a big server farm to synchronize things like book marks. Being able to tie SyncApp into apps would make it easier for open source developers to be able to make applications that are consistent across multiple devices.
  • mmartinez74 and rippelhans like this

#4 kos13

kos13

    BitTorrent Sync Team

  • Employees
  • 688 posts

Posted 06 April 2013 - 06:17 AM

We plan to have some developer API for SyncApp.
  • GreatMarko and frkr like this

#5 umlal

umlal

    New User

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 4 posts

Posted 06 April 2013 - 07:17 PM

We plan to have some developer API for SyncApp.

There's you answer, no, but an overall api would be great. i wonder if it will cost, or maby some monthly fee of hosting space? and I also wonder if the api will provide the ability to host other people's files, you can easly monitize virtual space.

#6 rippelhans

rippelhans

    New User

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 3 posts

Posted 15 April 2013 - 07:58 PM

  • API is good for usability but doesn't score points with trust & security
  • This is my main reason why I would love to see SyncApp as an OpenSource project.
  • The whole point of P2P is to be decentralized as opposed to proprietary cloud sync solutions. Now at least with proprietary cloud sync solutions I can see that my files are being sent directly to Dropbox (Amazon cloud storage), Google Drive... When it's P2P I can't do that. So then to be able to build trust into SyncApp we would need to be able to review the code. Unless of course people are expected to always use TrueCrypt container files when using SyncApp to synchronize their sensitive data.
Curious to hear what others think and of course the BitTorrent team!
  • btusername likes this

#7 umlal

umlal

    New User

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 4 posts

Posted 16 April 2013 - 12:33 AM

  • API is good for usability but doesn't score points with trust & security
  • This is my main reason why I would love to see SyncApp as an OpenSource project.
  • The whole point of P2P is to be decentralized as opposed to proprietary cloud sync solutions. Now at least with proprietary cloud sync solutions I can see that my files are being sent directly to Dropbox (Amazon cloud storage), Google Drive... When it's P2P I can't do that. So then to be able to build trust into SyncApp we would need to be able to review the code. Unless of course people are expected to always use TrueCrypt container files when using SyncApp to synchronize their sensitive data.
Curious to hear what others think and of course the BitTorrent team!


Valid points, i think they are afraid of losing momentum due to forking a better solution, But unless they will open the gates, other open source solutions will pop, And because the user doesn't have to relay on an established platform (such as BitTorrent) they will be easy to accept the alternatives.

#8 GreatMarko

GreatMarko

    BitTorrent Sync Alpha Tester

  • Moderators
  • 1,464 posts
  • LocationUK

Posted 16 April 2013 - 08:50 AM

Yes, it would be great if we lived in a world where all software was open source, but in reality this isn't the case!

BitTorrent are under no obligation whatsoever to release source code for SyncApp! ...just as say Microsoft are under no obligation to release source code for SkyDrive, etc.

Also, it could be argued that if SyncApp (or any "closed source" application) went "open source", this could make it LESS secure, as hackers would be able to analyze source code/package up their own malicious "SyncApp" clones, etc

The SyncApp/BitTorrent team do appear to take data security seriously, and do listen to user's concerns here on the forums, but as has been said before - if you're not comfortable using a "closed source" application, such as SyncApp - no one's forcing you too!

#9 rippelhans

rippelhans

    New User

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 3 posts

Posted 16 April 2013 - 01:38 PM

Yes, it would be great if we lived in a world where all software was open source, but in reality this isn't the case!


Yes it would be and we do see that open source and other open systems power a lot of todays world. Linux, Android, Chromium, Mozilla, WebKit, Wikipedia, Wordpress, and so on. But they don't have to share the open source philosophy I'd also be happy with just "source available for viewing" to lay the foundation for a transparent Security.

BitTorrent are under no obligation whatsoever to release source code for SyncApp! ...just as say Microsoft are under no obligation to release source code for SkyDrive, etc.


You're great at stating the obvious. As if I said they have to. I said it would be good. Nobody has to make software neither closed source or open source. To give another example, Microsoft did show their source code for Windows to the Department of Defense because DoD wouldn't trust the code unless they could review it (of course they still heavily use Linux).

Also, it could be argued that if SyncApp (or any "closed source" application) went "open source", this could make it LESS secure, as hackers would be able to analyze source code/package up their own malicious "SyncApp" clones, etc


It could be argued, in fact you can argue for anything you want that doesn't make it a good argument. Please don't be so defensive. I'm not here to attack BitTorrent and their work. I want it to take off and I believe transparency could take them a long way in a world where people have come to trust more blindly the Microsofts and the Googles of the business.

The SyncApp/BitTorrent team do appear to take data security seriously, and do listen to user's concerns here on the forums, but as has been said before - if you're not comfortable using a "closed source" application, such as SyncApp - no one's forcing you too!


Again you sound very defensive and god knows why. It is not a law that it has to be closed source and BitTorrent's decision of which way to do is not an eternal one. So lets leave this as a possibility even if they at the moment choose to take it down the close source route. And I would like to hear their side of the story with actual good reasons including the business/money side of it and not your defensive ramblings.
  • btusername likes this

#10 splat

splat

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 15 posts

Posted 20 April 2013 - 05:00 PM

I too would like to see sync become open-source, but it is rather difficult to build and manage an effective community for such a thing.

Perhaps a reasonable compromise would be publishing a description of the way Sync uses the bit torrent protocol (is that what Kos means by "developer API")? Indeed, one of the success drivers in the wider bittorrent community has been the surfeit of third-party developers and apps that all speak the same protocol.
  • Waffle S.S. and btusername like this

#11 perennate

perennate

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 33 posts

Posted 24 April 2013 - 07:50 PM

Just setup btsync on ten or so Linux servers and so far it's working great. The one thing that I don't like is it isn't free software; that means there's no way to validate the claimed security and privacy, if BitTorrent stops supporting it at some point then no one will be able to directly continue the project, and if I want to add some feature I have to depend on BitTorrent to add it.

I guess they plan on monetizing off the software in the future, but they're going to lose a huge userbase with the decision. Although I guess there's also a strong possibility someone will reverse engineer it and release an open source version.

#12 GreatMarko

GreatMarko

    BitTorrent Sync Alpha Tester

  • Moderators
  • 1,464 posts
  • LocationUK

Posted 24 April 2013 - 07:58 PM

I guess they plan on monetizing off the software in the future, but they're going to lose a huge userbase with the decision.


You've obviously not see this thread:

"If tomorrow we want to charge you $100 for 10Kb transferred, stop everything related to the app or try to force you not to use the SyncApp, we just physically can't achieve that.
SyncApp will work tomorrow exactly like it works today, no matter what we will do. And it will work exactly like today even 10 years from now, of course, if we will have computers in future :)"

In essence, BitTorrent Sync (then called "SyncApp" at the time of the above quote) is free and will remain free! :D

#13 perennate

perennate

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 33 posts

Posted 24 April 2013 - 08:01 PM

@GreatMarko in which case, I don't understand their decision to not release it as free (as in freedom; aka open source) software.

Edit: nevermind, I think you misunderstood what I said, I shouldn't have put those two phrases in the same sentence. I meant that I believe they're going to lose a huge userbase with the decision to not release it as free / open source software; think about it, it could eventually be as easy as apt-get install btsync. My guess was that they plan to monetize off of it somehow in the future and believe that if they open source it, then they won't be able to do so as effectively.
  • rippelhans likes this

#14 Syl

Syl

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 31 posts

Posted 24 April 2013 - 08:01 PM

I wonder how they can monetize a command line program, unless they're selling it...

#15 GreatMarko

GreatMarko

    BitTorrent Sync Alpha Tester

  • Moderators
  • 1,464 posts
  • LocationUK

Posted 24 April 2013 - 08:05 PM

I meant that they're going to lose a huge userbase with the decision to not release it as free / open source software


Why? Is Cubby open source? is AeroFS open source? is DropBox open source? is SkyDrive open source? was Live Mesh (RIP Mesh!) open source?

BitTorrent Sync isn't going to "loose a huge userbase" by not being open source!

#16 perennate

perennate

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 33 posts

Posted 24 April 2013 - 08:24 PM

> Why? Is Cubby open source? is AeroFS open source? is DropBox open source? is SkyDrive open source? was Live Mesh (RIP Mesh!) open source?

Sure, and yet rsync (and unison, which is based on rsync) are still the most popular tools outside of the Desktop userbase.

> I wonder how they can monetize a command line program, unless they're selling it...

Probably as enterprise kind of solutions, like MySQL and the rest. But if they don't plan on getting any money off the project at all, then there's no reason for them not to release it eventually unless it's not really secure / private (but I'm sure it is).

#17 GreatMarko

GreatMarko

    BitTorrent Sync Alpha Tester

  • Moderators
  • 1,464 posts
  • LocationUK

Posted 24 April 2013 - 08:41 PM

But if they don't plan on getting any money off the project at all, then there's no reason for them not to release it eventually unless it's not really secure / private (but I'm sure it is).


Well, one reason (and I'm only speculating here!) may be from a security point of view - if others are able to access/modify the code, derivative and potentially dangerous "clones" of BitTorrent Sync could emerge, and plus it would make BitTorrent Sync more prove to "hack" attempts if malicious coders can easily access the source.

I'm personally happier that it's "closed source" right now, as it makes it the whole thing more secure!

At the end of the day it comes down to a question of trust - the majority of calls for the source code to be released are coming from those who want to examine the code for their own piece of mind over security.

As with any closed-source software application, if you don't trust it don't use it! ...we don't hear people calling on Microsoft to release the source code for Word or Excel for example, yet I suspect the majority of us still use their products!

#18 perennate

perennate

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 33 posts

Posted 24 April 2013 - 09:02 PM

> Well, one reason (and I'm only speculating here!) may be from a security point of view - if others are able to access/modify the code, derivative and potentially dangerous "clones" of BitTorrent Sync could emerge, and plus it would make BitTorrent Sync more prove to "hack" attempts if malicious coders can easily access the source.
> I'm personally happier that it's "closed source" right now, as it makes it the whole thing more secure!

This assumes BitTorrent Sync gets its security through obscurity. I doubt this really is the case since it uses AES and other methods of encryption. If the software is truly secure, then it'd be impossible to create dangerous clones of the software. The argument you make is common, and there are many counter-arguments; I won't repeat them, just look at http://en.wikipedia....ftware_security (includes both sides of the argument).

Similarly, the second statement is far from true.

> At the end of the day it comes down to a question of trust - the majority of calls for the source code to be released are coming from those who want to examine the code for their own piece of mind over security.

There's many other, more important arguments in favor of open source software. I've already stated some above. If an end-user feels like a feature is missing, the end-user can add it, meaning faster feature development and greater customization. More users can pry the source code, meaning greater theoretical security (as opposed to security through obscurity). If a bug is discovered, it can be fixed more efficiently.

> As with any closed-source software application, if you don't trust it don't use it! ...we don't hear people calling on Microsoft to release the source code for Word or Excel for example, yet I suspect the majority of us still use their products!

First of all, the closed-source nature of their products has resulted in many open source clones: for example, LibreOffice. But I guess this isn't too relevant.

Moreover, Word and Excel aren't products that require a large amount of security. On the other hand, BitTorrent Sync pits its security as one of its _primary_ features. So this isn't an apt comparison.
  • rippelhans and splat like this

#19 bugmenot

bugmenot

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 39 posts

Posted 24 April 2013 - 09:45 PM

To add my own two cents: Please make it open source and free.
* I won't pay for it because I currently happily using a self-hosted owncloud.
* I won't use it if it isn't open source because I mistrust closed-source bittorrent software (I heard too many stories of malware / adware in closed-source p2p software).
...but that's just my opinion.
  • rippelhans likes this

#20 GreatMarko

GreatMarko

    BitTorrent Sync Alpha Tester

  • Moderators
  • 1,464 posts
  • LocationUK

Posted 24 April 2013 - 09:49 PM

Please make it open source and free... I won't pay for it because .....


*sigh* BitTorrent Sync **IS** free!


I won't use it if it isn't open source because I mistrust closed-source bittorrent software


In which case, if you're not happy with BitTorrent Sync you may be better using a different solution then! - at the end of the day, no-one's forced to use BitTorrent Sync! :)


  • Page 1 of 5
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: syncapp, open source, hardware